As Nigeria continues to grapple with insecurity, economic hardship, and concerns over declining moral values, the Chairman of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), Oyo State chapter, DR. ELISHA OLUKAYODE OGUNDINYA, speaks candidly with GBENRO ADESINA on his life journey, Christian faith, leadership challenges, and the state of the nation. In this revealing interview, the cleric recounts his humble beginnings, his years in Northern Nigeria, his salvation experience, concerns over insecurity and kidnapping, and his views on the role of the Church and government in addressing the nation’s challenges. He also shares personal experiences from his 37 years in ministry and offers his perspective on the future of Nigeria. The Excerpt:
Q: Beyond titles and positions, who is Elisha Olukayode Ogundiya?
A: Before now, I was nobody. I am a product of grace, and it is that grace that has made me who I am today. My father was a deacon in the Baptist church. I was born in Lagos on Thursday, June 8, 1961, and grew up there. I attended National Primary School, Abule-Ijesa, Lagos. We lived in a room apartment in Shomolu. While my mother sold pap, my father was a street hawker, selling all sorts of things, including baskets he made himself. On Saturday, I joined him to sell. We would walk from Shomolu to Lagos Island hawking goods. Poverty pushed my father into hawking. Through these activities, God made me understand the rudiments of life. While growing up, my father would always tell me not to despise humble beginnings. In 1970, we returned to our hometown in Oke Amu, under Itesiwaju Local Government, Oyo State. My father returned home to take care of his aged mother, my grandmother. Back home, he became a peasant farmer. I was admitted into Primary Three at Baptist Primary School, Oke Amu. After my primary school education, I attended secondary school in Iseyin. Afterwards, I returned to Lagos around 1976/78 to learn tailoring. Before then, I had been employed at Academy Press as a clerical assistant. I worked there for about one and a half years. My dream at the time was to become a teacher because I wanted to be like my father’s younger brother, who was a primary school teacher. I copied him in everything. To this day, I sign my name the way he did. I tried to gain admission into a teacher training college in Lagos, but it didn’t work out. Later, I decided to join my maternal aunt in Sokoto because I was told that gaining admission into school there was easier. That move marked the beginning of my breakthrough in life. My mother is from Ago Are. I travelled to Sokoto with a farmer who used to go there to buy fruits. The day I arrived in Sokoto, my aunt took me to a local government office and spoke to them in Hausa, telling them that I was his son. She asked them to give me a job as part of the benefits she deserved for staying and trading in Sokoto. That same afternoon, I was employed and given a teaching appointment. I worked there for one and a half years before proceeding to Giginya Memorial Teacher Training College, located in Race Course, Sokoto. I underwent a two-year course as a Grade 2 teacher under a government-sponsored programme. After completing the programme, I was posted to a school where I taught for nine years. In obedience to God’s calling to attend theology school, I left my teaching appointment. In 1986, I was admitted into ECWA Theological Seminary, Igbaja, where I obtained a Diploma of Theology in 1989, a Bachelor’s Degree in 1991, a Master’s Degree in 1993, and a PhD in Leadership and Administration in 2015. After my three-year Diploma programme, I was employed by ECWA and posted to Benin in the then Southern District. After one and a half years, I was transferred to Lagos Island as an Associate Pastor, where I served for another one and a half years. Afterwards, I was transferred to Oshogbo, Osun State, where I stayed for five years. From there, I was transferred to Ogbomosho, where I spent one year and three months before moving to Warri for two years. Later, I became the district secretary, with our headquarters in Challenge, Ibadan, Oyo State, where I served for six years. After that, I pastored ECWA Chapel, Bodija, for four years. From there, I was transferred back to Oshogbo, where I served for another four years and eventually became the Osun State CAN Chairman. After my tenure, I was transferred to Abeokuta, where I worked for four years. From Abeokuta, I was transferred to Ibadan about four years ago. Last December, I was elected as Oyo State CAN Chairman.
Q: Who had the greatest influence on you between your father and mother?
A: In the area of spiritual life, my father made a very significant impact on my life. In terms of pursuing success in life, my mother was a great source of encouragement. She always told me that everything was possible. I cherish both my father and mother because they contributed positively to my life.
Q: You spent part of your youthful years in the North. If you were to compare the North of then to the North of today, what would you say?
A: Tribal and religious discrimination have always been major issues in the North. For instance, I had to change my Christian name to a Muslim name while I was in teacher training college so that I could enjoy the same benefits as the Northern students. Some of the benefits included free education, free feeding, clothing, and transport allowances back to one’s hometown. At the time, I claimed that place as my home. They didn’t want to see names like Michael, Mathew, or Elisha in their record. However, before I completed my course at the teacher training college, I encountered the Lord and changed my name back to Elisha. So, religious discrimination existed then, just as it does today, but it wasn’t as severe as what we see now with Boko Haram and the widespread killings. Back then, Christians were regarded as infidels or unbelievers. Though it was largely non-violent, they would do everything possible to convert you to Islam. However, if you remained firm in your faith, they would eventually leave you alone.
Q: So, you are saying that the religious problem we are experiencing dates back to the early times of Nigeria?
A: Yes. Many Northerners see Islam and their culture as inseparable. To them, other religions, such as Christianity, are considered foreign.
Q: So, are you also saying that the North is an endangered region for the Christian?
A: Yes, especially in the core North like Sokoto, Zamfara, Kebbi, Jigawa, Kano, Katsina, Kaduna, and others.
Q: Could you share some of your unforgettable memories from your journey in the ministry?
A: On June 1st this year, I marked 37 years in full-time ministry. There have been many memories, both positive and negative. But in all, God is great. One of the challenges in the ministry is that you may not always be loved in the church where you are posted as a pastor. A few days ago, I shared with members of the church an experience I had when I resumed at one of the churches I was posted to. It was a Saturday, during choir practice. The choir members came to greet me in the pastorium. During our interaction, I told them that my wife and children are good singers, and that though I don’t have a good singing voice, I love music and singing. After our discussion, they asked a woman to pray for their new pastor. In her prayer, she said, “Thank God for our new pastor, though he doesn’t like the choir.” The other members murmured because that wasn’t what I had said. Yet she continued praying. Till today, she refuses to accept me. That incident happened about 30 years ago, and I still don’t know what I did to offend her. She still displays the same attitude toward me to this day. Another painful experience is when pastors are disliked for no reason. Some church members prefer to support pastors outside their own churches rather than their own pastors. Interestingly, I have also experienced kindness and blessings from people outside my church. For example, someone who had never sat under my ministration for one minute gave me a Tokunbo Camry. All these experiences have taught me not to feel bitter about anybody’s perception of me. In 1 Thessalonians 5:24, the Bible says, “He who calls you is faithful.” Despite all the negative experiences, God remains faithful.
Q: What were the biggest struggles you faced in your early days as a minister? Did you ever feel like giving up?
A: No, I had never felt like giving up because I know things happen by God’s divine plans and purposes. I’ve worked in a church where they owed me three years’ salaries, and I succeeded.
Q: How did you cope?
A: God’s help. Around 1992/94, I was pastoring a church with less than 15 members in Ogbomosho while I was running my Master’s Degree programme. My salary was less than N7,000 at the time. Out of the little I had, I would buy Christmas food for my members. My seminary was in Igbaja, Kwara State. I was teaching undergraduates. I was using my teaching allowance to pay my school fees. By the weekend, I would come to Oshogbo to teach our extension seminary. Whatever money I get from this, I use it to buy food for the house.
Q: What is your Christian experience?
A: While I was in teacher training college, there was an Ondo man in his 40s, with whom I lost contact after 1998. A lady in my church reconnected us last year. At that time, I was in my 30s. He was a soldier in training from Gasau, and our beds were side by side in the dormitory. At that period of my life, I was very wayward. I moved around with different boys and students, drinking alcohol and engaging in all sorts of youthful excesses. But this man was a committed Christian and a member of ECWA. Whenever he tried to discourage me from those bad habits, I would tell him that church life is not strange to me because my father was a deacon. One day, he invited me to the second ECWA Church in Sokoto, a Yoruba-speaking church, and I went there with him. Though I can’t remember the topic of the sermon that day, I clearly remember the choir singing a song about the prodigal son. That day became both the saddest and most joyful day of my life. In the song, the choir urged us to remember home. As I listened, I was not only thinking about heaven, but I also remembered that I was the son of a deacon back home. I thought to myself that my father must never know the kind of life I was living because he would not be happy about it. Then I asked myself why I should continue living such a life. After the service, we returned to the dormitory. Not long afterwards, we completed our programme at the school and parted ways. God used that man as an instrument for my salvation. That was the day I gave my life to Jesus.
What is his name?
A: Sergeant Samuel Omowale. A few years ago, I wrote a book titled “My Jihad”. Last year, a lady in my church got a copy of the book and read it. She later told me that she knew the man whose name I mentioned in the book, because he is a member of her church in Ilorin. Right there, she called the man’s mother and asked for his photograph. In less than three minutes, the picture was sent, and indeed, it was him. He is now in his 80s. I got his phone number and called him. He could no longer remember me, but I reminded him of me as an instrument in my salvation.
Q: How do you conceptualise Jihadism?
A: Jihad is a spiritual war in Islam. I titled my book “My Jihad” because it contains my spiritual journey and war. My salvation story, life history, and experience in Osun as the CAN Chairman during the hijab saga are in the book.
Q: It has nothing to do with killing people?
A: No, Jihad means fighting for your rights and religion.
Q: Who do you turn to when you need strength, wisdom, or guidance?
A: Lord. He has never disappointed me. When I face challenges in the ministry and I am pushed to the wall, I pray to God, and He answers. He is the source of strength when I hit the wall.
Q: What is your position in your family?
A: My parents had nine children. We are the only two remaining. Whenever my mother had a child, between three months and a year, the child would die. That is how we remain two, my elder sister and I. I don’t even know my position.
Q: What did that experience teach you?
A: One day, I told my father to thank God that he has only two children. If all his children had survived, where would he get money to train them? My father couldn’t train us beyond secondary school. My university education was self-sponsored. My sister has an NCE. She retired last year as a teacher.
Q: As CAN’s Chairman, what does this role truly demand?
A: CAN in Oyo State is more demanding than in many other states, especially compared to Osun State. Oyo State is more complex. Osun State has only 16 LGAs, while Oyo State has 33. Even within the body of Christ, Oyo people are different in many ways. Leadership in Oyo State is highly demanding and requires commitment, dedication, and sacrifice.
Q: When I visited your office, I noticed that the surroundings were not well-maintained, with bushes growing everywhere. How do you manage the secretariat?
A: The machine we use for cutting grass developed a fault. The environment was not like that before the rainy season began. As I speak with you, we have already approved funds to purchase a new machine. By next week, the situation will have changed.
Q: In your inaugural speech, you urged the government to fish out perpetrators of banditry and kidnapping in Nigeria. Looking back now, do you think that call has yielded results?
A: I think the government is trying, but I don’t think its efforts have yielded the expected result. The government needs to be more proactive. The insecurity is all over the country. The terrorists have come to the West from the North.
Q: When you heard about the terrorist attack on three schools in Orire LGA, where about 50 people, including minors, pupils, and teachers, were kidnapped, what went through your mind?
A: Ever since the Leah Sharibu incident, I’ve been troubled. Sambisa Forest, where terrorists are said to be camping, didn’t emerge overnight. Why did the government allow terrorists to remain in the forest and continue terrorising the nation? They said the children and teachers recently kidnapped in Orire LGA were taken into our reserved forest. How did Fulani herders settle a government-reserved forest without permission? If our state is not porous, how can people settle in the government-protected forest with their cows, cause trouble, kill people, and yet the government and security agencies are unable to do anything about it? Something is definitely wrong somewhere.
Q: Do we have security in Nigeria?
A: There may be security structures in place, but they are clearly not functioning effectively. Once something is not functioning, it is as good as non-existent. The primary responsibility of security agencies is to protect the people, yet Nigerians don’t feel secure. That is very unfortunate. How did these people gain access to the government reserve forest, where they were reportedly launching attacks against our security agents? How did they acquire bombs and other dangerous weapons? How are they getting food supplies and other forms of support? It would not be out of place for people to conclude that the government is aware of the Fulani settlers occupying the government-reserved forest. How can the government allow terrorists to take over its property and use it for criminal activities such as kidnapping, killing, and collecting ransom, while nothing meaningful is done about it? It is very unfortunate.
Q: What is a way forward?
A: I think what we can do is to be prayerful as religious. As a government, any serious government should be able to do something. We all heard that the Oyo State government bought two aircraft for surveillance. Where are the aircraft? If we had two aircraft, our military men would have been using them to deal with the situation. These aircraft have been purchased since last year and are yet to become functional. Until we have a government that can really put the masses at heart, we’ll continue to be insecure.
Q: What is the position of CAN regarding this development?
A: We are appealing to the government to act quickly before these people are killed. Imagine these helpless victims being exposed to both rain and scorching sun. We must also continue to pray until God miraculously secures their release. There was an incident reported to me by one of the church leaders sometime around February or March. In Itesiwaju LGA of the Oke-Ogun region, a man and his wife were ambushed while riding a motorcycle to the farm. The woman was released, but the husband was tied to a tree and guarded by two-armed kidnappers. As God would have it, the two kidnappers fell asleep, the rope loosened, and the victim escaped. The same group later kidnapped another man, who also escaped similarly. They abducted a third person, and he, too, managed to escape. Afterwards, the kidnappers threatened the villagers, saying they would invade the community and take everyone away. That was when the villagers cried out for help. This is the reality we are facing today. However, I believe that the same God who set Paul and Silas free from prison, and who delivered Peter from captivity, will also bring freedom to those who were recently kidnapped.
Q: If you have the opportunity to speak directly to the government today, what will you say?
A: We appreciate what the government is doing, but it needs to do more because the current efforts are not enough and are not yielding the desired results.
Q: Do you think Nigeria is working?
A: Yes, Nigeria is working. No matter how bad the situation is, I believe Nigeria is working.
Q: But some people hold that the North and South are not compatible?
A: That is human opinion, but God has not made a mistake in keeping us together all these years. If, in his infinite mercy, he desires that we separate, then so be it.
Q: Many Nigerians are going through severe economic hardship. What role should the Church play at a time like this, and is the Church doing enough?
A: The church should be proactive, show concern, and play the role our Lord Jesus Christ played by caring for and feeding the people. We may not be able to perform miracles as He did, but we can empower our church members. This is the time for churches to equip and support people so they can become self-reliant and live sustainably on their own.
Q: How can they do that?
A: There are so many ways that church members can be empowered. Unemployed graduates, for instance, can devote their time to teaching the younger students in secondary schools as a means of rendering service to humanity.
Q: On an empty stomach?
A: The church can assist these graduates with stipends and other forms of support. Churches can help petty traders by giving them small amounts of capital to support their businesses. They can also assist younger people in acquiring vocational skills. When people become self-employed, they will be able to survive and, in turn, contribute to the church. Giving as little as N20,000 to the poor and petty traders can go a long way.
Q: There are concerns about declining moral values in society. Do you think the Church is gradually losing its influence?
A: The church is gradually losing its moral standards in areas such as mode of dressing and other aspects of life. We need to uphold the faith of our fathers. Churches are failing to train young people in proper dressing and decent conduct. In those days, if a child was not properly dressed, an adult would correct such a child. Today, respect for elders has greatly declined. I believe church leaders still have a lot of work to do in restoring moral discipline and proper values in society.
