BARR. ABDUR-RAHEEM ADEBAYO SHITTU, former Minister of Communication, former Oyo State Attorney-General and Commissioner for Justice, and currently the Pro-Chancellor and Chairman of the Governing Council of Dave Umahi Federal University of Health Sciences, Uburu, Eboyi State, speaks on his political journey, his decision to abandon his 2027 governorship ambition, Governor Seyi Makinde’s administration, local government autonomy, and his renewed agitation for the establishment of Sharia Courts in Oyo State. In this wide-ranging interview with GBENRO ADESINA, Shittu also discusses Islam, religious harmony, Western education, his retirement from active legal practice, the APC, and his views on the future of Nigeria.
Q: You wanted to contest for the 2027 governorship election, and all of a sudden, you withdrew from the race. Did you withdraw voluntarily, or was it due to party manipulation?
A: If I said both, I would not be incorrect. I wanted to contest. I was about to resign as the Pro-Chancellor and Chairman of the Governing Council of the Umahi University of Health Sciences in order to contest, but I was scammed by a well-respected person who told me that President Bola Ahmed Tinubu asked me not to resign my appointment as Pro-Chancellor. I didn’t resign again, and I had to abandon my ambition of contesting the governorship election. I had produced my campaign manifesto as an Awoist. During Awo’s time, the progressives were known to have a four-cardinal programme: free education at all levels, free health services, full employment, and integrated infrastructure and development. As a governorship candidate, I increased mine to seven cardinal programmes. Unfortunately, the governorship candidates have nothing they are promising the public. I feel very saddened that, in Nigeria, politics is about ego: “I want to become this,” and “I want to become that.” There is no specific programme of action.
Q: Do you think the 2027 APC governorship candidate emerged in a rightful atmosphere?
A: Certainly, the emergence of the candidate was not rightful. I don’t want to go into it. I don’t want to be seen as trying to destroy the chances of the APC, but a lot of people were disenchanted by the less-than-sincere manner of his emergence.
Q: Are you going to work for him during the electioneering campaign?
A: I have given him a condition. I believe the people of Oyo deserve something concrete and promises. I have asked him to take two of my seven cardinal programmes, particularly free education and free medical services, for implementation. If he agrees, I will work for him. The President removed the fuel subsidy. Consequently, the state has too much money. It is not a question of the government not having money to fund free education and medical services. The government has more than enough money. This should be applied to the welfare of the people. Free education is provided for in the 1999 Constitution. Why are we shying away from it while we call ourselves progressives?
Q: Do you see Governor Seyi Makinde emerging as the next President of Nigeria?
A: He is just a starter. Where is he known? What does he have?
Q: That was how Alao-Akala berated him when he wanted to contest for the governorship?
A: Being a president is not about magic. He is suffering from over-ambition.
Q: Do you think the issue of the conversion of Agodi Botanical Garden to a residential estate should be revisited?
A: How many people are visiting Agodi Botanical Garden? Certainly not the poor masses and the middle class. Even the rich would rather go outside the country to enjoy themselves. I only hope that Governor Makinde will not just sell those properties and get away with it. There are a few projects he started more than seven years ago that he has not completed. Look at the Agbowo Shopping Complex in front of the University of Ibadan; Makinde has been on it for more than seven years, and nothing has been done. Who will ask where the money has gone?
I am not sure that the man is not taking care of his post-governorship life.
Q: Are you suggesting that Governor Makinde could face an EFCC investigation after leaving office?
A: There is no doubt about it. This is somebody who has contravened the judgment of the Supreme Court of Nigeria with regard to financial autonomy for local governments. The law says local governments are independent and should enjoy financial autonomy. Makinde says no, just because he is a governor and has all the protection of the law, and that he cannot be queried. All the money coming from both the state and local governments goes into his pocket.
Q: That is a serious allegation?
A: Yes, it is an allegation, but it is true. Let us wait until after he has left office.
Q: But you acknowledge that he is working?
A: In fairness to him, he has done very well in the area of infrastructural development. He has done very well in developing Ibadan. But the law is the law, which says local governments must have financial autonomy. Who is he to do otherwise?
Q: But he is not the only governor who is opposed to financial autonomy for local governments.
A: The fact that he is not the only governor does not make it right. Whoever is involved in that type of financial misbehaviour should bear the consequences after leaving office.
Q: What are the other areas where you think he is falling short?
A: As innocent as Makinde looks, he is not a man who can befriend you from morning to evening. He has lost so many friends because once he makes the best use of you, he dumps you. Secondly, he recently threatened the Olubadan of Ibadan against getting involved in politics. You don’t correct people by threatening them. If the Olubadan is supporting him, he will not say that.
Q: During our last interaction on the phone, you said that after the 2027 election, you would vigorously begin the agitation for the establishment of Sharia law in Oyo State. Am I correct?
A: Yes. The fact that I have agreed to this interview means that there is no sacrosanctity about the time of starting to advocate for Sharia law in Oyo State. This is a constitutional matter, and people are being deprived of their rights to Sharia law, particularly Muslims in the Yoruba State. Why are we ignoring what the Constitution has approved?
Q: Why do you think Oyo State needs Sharia law?
A: For instance, I am a Muslim. I got married under Sharia law. If I die now, how would my properties be shared among the potential beneficiaries? It is only the Sharia Court that has the jurisdiction under the law to determine and enforce the proper sharing of whatever legacy I leave behind.
Q: The Sharia law you are advocating for, do you see it as voluntary personal-law arbitration, or as a broader legal system that includes civil and criminal law and punishment?
A: The law doesn’t say that criminal jurisdiction will be involved. It limits it to Muslims’ personal law. It means that the matters involved include Islamic marriages or marriages by Muslims, the validity of such marriages, dowry, divorce, which can be initiated by either a male or a female, judicial dissolution, the waiting period when there is no longer a marriage, maintenance of spouses, child maintenance, custody of children, guardianship of children, inheritance and succession, Islamic wills, Islamic endowment, and matters concerning Muslim infants, or certain vulnerable Muslims. All of these are involved in Muslim personal law.
Q: Are those matters considered civil matters?
A: Yes, they are civil.
Q: Are you saying that it should not be compulsory for all Muslims, and that Muslims who do not opt for it should not be compelled to submit to it? Are you also advocating that it should be part of the legal framework of Oyo State?
A: Of course, yes. There are Muslims in Oyo State, so it should be part of the legal framework of Oyo State.
Q: So, you are saying that it must be part of the legal framework of Oyo State?
A: Of course. The Oyo State House of Assembly must appropriately establish a Sharia Court in Oyo State because about 50 per cent of the population in Oyo State are Muslims. There is a particular prominent Muslim who died about a year ago. When he died, his first wife sold his properties and excluded the other wives from benefiting from the proceeds of the sale. As it is today, no court in Oyo State has jurisdiction to handle such a case. So, we need a court that has jurisdiction over Muslims’ personal law to adjudicate. Also, in Oyo State today, anybody who marries under statutory law either goes to church or court to get married. If there are issues of divorce, inheritance, or succession, it is the High Court of Oyo State that has jurisdiction to adjudicate over such matters. For anybody who marries under Yoruba customary law, it is the customary court system of Oyo State that has jurisdiction to adjudicate matters arising from such a marriage. But for Muslims who marry under Sharia law and through the necessary legal procedures, there is currently no available law and no court that has the jurisdiction to adjudicate such matters. So, Muslims are neglected and disabled from seeking justice in accordance with the Sharia law under which marriages are contracted.
Q: Should Sharia law be optional because there are Muslim faithful who may say they do not want to be subject to Sharia law?
A: No problem. Anybody who decides against it is fine. For instance, in marriage, if you decide to go and marry in court, you are excluded.
Q: What if you marry under Islamic law and subsequently have a dispute with your husband? Can you say, “No, I want my case to be heard in a statutory court”?
A: Why did you get married under Sharia law? The issues that you are raising don’t arise. As of today, there is a Sharia Court in Abuja.
Q: If a marriage is contracted under Sharia law and there is an issue regarding inheritance or whatever, and I decide to go to the High Court because I am comfortable with the High Court, what happens?
A: The High Court does not have jurisdiction.
Q: You are saying that the High Court doesn’t have jurisdiction because my marriage was contracted under Islamic law?
A: Exactly. The law says the High Court doesn’t have jurisdiction.
Q: If the matter is heard by the Sharia Court and the woman is not pleased with the judgment, can she appeal the matter?
A: Yes, she can appeal.
Q: To where?
A: The Sharia Court of Appeal has High Court status. From it, you can go to the Court of Appeal proper, and from there you can still proceed to the Supreme Court.
Q: Before the Sharia Court of Appeal, what do we have?
A: There are Area Courts, which are Islamic. From the Area Court, you go to the Sharia Court of Appeal. From the Sharia Court of Appeal, you go to the Court of Appeal proper. From there, you go to the Supreme Court.
Q: Why is there no provision in the Constitution that allows adherents of other religions to establish their own courts too, just as the Constitution allows the establishment of the Sharia Court of Appeal?
A: The High Court takes care of that.
Q: What if I feel the High Court cannot accommodate my matter?
A: Let me tell you. There are three systems of law. We have the High Court, customary court, and Sharia Court. You must fall into one of these.
Q: What about me advocating for a Christian court, or traditional religion worshippers advocating for theirs?
A: There are customary courts. Traditional religious people are accommodated under the customary court. You must come and prove the customs which guide whatever religion you practise.
Q: The Constitution provides for a Customary Court of Appeal under Section 265. Are you saying a customary court can’t entertain your matter?
A: Judges of customary courts are not experts in Islamic law.
Q: But you were first a Yoruba man before you became a Muslim. Customary courts apply Yoruba customs and traditions, which I strongly believe bind you?
A: They are not binding on me.
Q: But you are a Yoruba man?
A: It doesn’t matter. You could be English. You could be Yoruba. You could be whatever tribe. It is whatever religion you adopt that will determine which court will take care of issues.
Q: Are you saying that you don’t believe in Yoruba culture?
A: How can I believe in it when I am a Muslim?
Q: You don’t believe in our culture and traditions?
A: I don’t believe in your religious beliefs.
Q: I am not talking about the Yoruba religion?
A: What is religion? What is culture? What is the Yoruba culture that I will believe in?
Q: You were born?
A: [Cut-in] I was born a Muslim.
Q: I mean, you were born to Yoruba parents?
A: Yes, who were Muslims.
Q: That makes you a Yoruba man first?
A: Being a Yoruba man doesn’t exclude me from being a Muslim.
Q: Yes. The Muslim religion you talked about was foreign, just like Christianity is a foreign religion?
A: We are talking about the Constitution.
Q: Yes, I know. I am driving at something?
A: You can’t drive to anything. You are either a Christian, Muslim, or whatever you are.
Q: I am a Christian?
A: If you are a Christian, the Constitution says you are bound by the High Court of the common law.
Q: If I have a case in a court of law and my Christian conviction says that it is wrong for me to stand before anybody and swear, and I get to court and a Bible is given to me to swear on, and I say, “No, I am not swearing,” have I not violated the law?
A: That is left to you.
Q: The judge has to use discretion to deal with my matter, or I am accused of contempt of court. Does this not show that English law doesn’t accommodate me as a Christian?
A: Let me tell you. All these cases you are making have no place in the Constitution. The Constitution is very clear. If you marry or live your life as a Christian, you are bound to go to the High Court for issues concerning your Christian personal law. If you are a Muslim, the Constitution already gives you a way out, how you will be bound. We are Muslims. We don’t care about whatever happens to other people. If they have agitation to make, it is for them to make agitation. But for us as Muslims, we are Muslims and we are nothing else.
Q: We have established that Sharia law is in the Federal Constitution?
A: Yes, it is in the Constitution, and we are saying that the government of Oyo State follows the Federal Constitution and should provide for a Sharia Court for Muslims.
Q: It has been claimed that the 1999 Constitution is defective?
A: [Cut-in] Let me tell you. It is the enforceable law. Until it is amended, it remains enforceable.
Q: I know. You were trained in English law. If one law is applied to me in a country and another law applies to someone else in the same country, are we not seeing a crisis?
A: Which crisis?
Q: Is it not possible to be under the same Constitution?
A: We are a diverse people. No law can force us to eat “Amala” every morning. Diversity is the essence of our lives. In a free democracy, the law is very clear. The law has provided for all categories of people. If you belong to the Yoruba tradition, the law says there will be a customary court for you. If you are a Muslim, why are Muslims denied what rightly belongs to them, which the Constitution has rightly provided for them? Why are you creating the impression that because there are supposed to be some imperfections, we must not follow what the Constitution says? No.
Q: Do Muslims have freedom of religion in Nigeria?
A: We are supposed to enjoy it, but there is a lacuna now. The law to take care of our personal life has not been established.
Q: Without such a law being established in Oyo State, and considering the religious diversity in the state, nobody stops you from practising your religion and managing your personal affairs at your level?
A: If the Constitution has made provision to safeguard and guarantee our interests, why would anybody want to deny us?
Q: Are you saying that Christians can now say they want to have their own law and court, and traditional worshippers can say the same?
A: That is not my business. I will never prevent any of them from seeking whatever they can justifiably establish. We are not trying to deny any other person what they believe they should have. There is no Christian who has said that the High Court laws are not sufficiently applicable to them. It is only Muslims who are being denied their rights. We are seeking to persuade the government, the House of Assembly, and everybody to stick to the law and do what the law says.
Q: What happens to Christians, traditional worshippers and others who don’t want to be governed by Islamic law?
A: Nobody is forced to go to any court. If they are not Muslims, they do not have any business with the Sharia Court.
Q: If Sharia law is incorporated into the legal framework of the state, do you believe Christians and other non-Muslims would be adequately protected?
A: It is so easy. There are Sharia Courts of Appeal in the Federal Capital Territory; there are State High Courts and Magistrate Courts. Have you ever heard of anybody complaining that he is being forced to go under Sharia law? Has it ever happened? Of course, but it will never happen.
Q: There have been instances of actions involving Muslims and non-Muslims that have raised concerns about the application of Sharia law?
A: Where?
Q: Let us bring up a few instances to illustrate what might be the consequences of legalizing Sharia Law and Court in Oyo State. First, in October 2007, a Sharia court in Kano, Nigeria, convicted Sani Kabili, a 55-year-old Christian and father of six, of blasphemy against the Prophet Muhammad. The court initially sentenced Kabili to three years in prison. The case sparked significant controversy and debate regarding religious freedom and the jurisdiction of Islamic Sharia courts over non-Muslims in Northern Nigeria. However, in February 2009, an appeal court overturned the conviction, leading to his release. Again, Christianah Oluwatoyin Oluwasesin, a Gomber Christian teacher, was killed by a Muslim mob in March 2007 after students accused her of desecrating the Qur’an. Furthermore, in September 2007, violence erupted following an allegation that Christian students had drawn a picture of Muhammad. Nine Christians were reported killed and churches destroyed. In 2002, a female journalist, Isioma Daniels, wrote an article about Prophet Muhammad during the Miss World pageant in Nigeria. The piece sparked violent sectarian riots in Nigeria that led to over 200 deaths. On November 26, 2002, Zamfara State’s deputy governor issued a fatwa calling for her death, which the Nigerian federal government rejected as unconstitutional. She later resigned and went into exile in Europe. What I am saying is that we have many examples from states practising Sharia where Christians have been victims of actions carried out in the name of Sharia Law. The point is this: if Sharia Law comes to Oyo State, how do you guarantee the protection of Christians and other non-Muslims?
A: The first thing is that people have rights, and they have been denied their rights. More than three million Muslims have been denied their rights to enjoy the benefits of Sharia Law. So, if there are irregularities or criminal activities in other states, should that be used to deny Muslims in Oyo State the opportunity to establish Sharia Law and Court when the Constitution has provided for it?
Q: We are looking at the consequences of such legislation for non-Muslims?
A: No consequence can justify denying Muslims their rights.
Q: We have heard of situations where non-Muslims were beheaded in Nigeria?
A: Was it a Sharia Court that ordered the beheading?
Q: Most of the problems are usually anchored on allegations of blasphemy?
A: What is my business with that, or the business of a Sharia Court in that?
Q: Let us take a situation where a journalist writes something that Muslims consider blasphemous?
A: You will now be taken to a Sharia Court?
Q: What if it generates mob action against the journalist, as we have experienced in Nigeria?
A: We are Muslims. You can’t deny us being Muslims and deny us our rights.
Q: I am not doing that because…?
A: (cut-in). You are doing that because you are bringing unjustifiable excuses. You are bringing excuses to deny the rights of more than three million Muslims in Oyo State. You are talking about the denial of the rights that the Constitution has guaranteed. The fact that criminals somewhere did something would not justify continued denial. We are talking about Oyo State, where the Constitution says we have the right to establish Sharia Courts.
Q: Do you think women are well protected under Sharia Law?
A: They are better protected.
Q: How?
A: In several ways. The Qur’an guarantees the rights of Muslims. Before Islam came, when Arabs gave birth to females, they buried them alive. The Qur’an came and liberated them. There are several marriage policies and principles that guarantee the enjoyment of women. Women go about naked these days—is that the type of thing you want? Our own women want their rights to be protected. Islam gives them protection. We are talking about the constitution, not what anybody thinks should be the proper thing.
Q: Some people believe that the clauses that make Sharia Law a constitutional matter were included because those who drafted the 1999 Constitution were mainly Muslims. They argue that if the drafters had not been Muslims, such clauses might not have been included, or that there might have been another provision allowing other religious groups to establish their own courts. What is your response to that argument?
A: Anybody who feels that they are not being taken care of can go to the National Assembly. Let people seek an amendment to the Constitution to take care of their interests. If they have any special interest that has not been taken care of, they should seek an amendment.
Q: Still on women, if women in North Africa, where Islam originated, are not comfortable with Sharia law, what about Oyo State, which is religiously diverse?
A: Muslims are not diverse. Are you saying that the clause establishing Sharia law should not have been in the Constitution?
Q: I am saying that we should have a constitution that is not religiously sentimental, but one that accommodates all of us without any special religious provision?
A: It is one Constitution that takes care of diverse interests.
Q: Is it all Muslims in Oyo State who want Sharia?
A: Have you seen any Muslim who does not want Sharia? What I am saying is that I am a Muslim, and I know what the law says. I am agitating for what the law says—for the enforcement of the Constitution.
Q: Those who believe in Sharia, are they jihadists?
A: What is the meaning of jihad? Let me tell you, every Muslim is a jihadist. The meaning of jihad is to fight for the goodness of Muslims.My coming here, for instance, is an act of jihad because I am agitating for the establishment of a Sharia Court. If I have people drinking alcohol and I fail to drink it, that is jihad. Trying to establish goodness in society is jihad. Jihad is to fight against the negative things around you, or before you, or in your community.
Q: Can you interpret Section 10 of the Constitution for us? If Sharia is incorporated into the law of Oyo State, would that not amount to giving Muslims a preference over other religions?
A: Nigeria is not a secular state. Nigeria is a multi-religious state.Secular states are like China and Russia, where Sunday is not respected as a holiday, Saturday is not respected as a holiday, there is no Bible study in any school, there are no Christmas or Easter holidays, there is no Bible study in any school, and pastors are not invited to state occasions. Those are secular states. Nigeria, as of today, is a multi-religious state. The government respects all religions and gives them their due rights. Nigeria is not a secular state.
Q: We have some predominantly Muslim countries that do not practise Sharia in the way you are advocating. Take Turkey, for instance?
A: [Cut-in] Turkey is not an Islamic state. Turkey is a Muslim country.
Q: Turkey is a Muslim country with a population that is overwhelmingly Muslim, yet it does not adopt Sharia Law as its legal system. What do you have to say about that?
A: That is their business. What is my business with Turkey?
Q: Is it possible for a Christian to be holier than the Pope?
A: That is not relevant. What is important is that I am a human being. I have rights inherent in me. The Constitution of my country gives me those rights.What is my business about what happens in Turkey? It is completely irrelevant. I don’t live there, and I am not a citizen there. I am a Nigerian. I am a Muslim, and the Constitution gives me rights which must be enforced.
Q: We know how delicate Nigeria’s politics is. We were once colonised, and the colonisers have gone. But we have realised that, one way or the other, we are colonising ourselves. We are using the instrumentality of religion, ethnicity, and other factors to recolonize ourselves. The Sharia we are talking about—the way you are looking at it as a person may not be the same way a typical Fulani man will look at it. What do you say to that?
A: Fulanis are not citizens of Oyo State.
Q: I know. For instance, the Sultan of Sokoto is regarded as the head of Muslims in Nigeria.
A: [Cut-in] Nominal head. It is just an honorary head.
Q: But if he says anything about Islam, or gives a directive, will it not be carried out in the South-West?
A: If he says something about the mode of worship, and it aligns with my belief, I will respect it. He doesn’t have to say anything before I know when to worship.
Q: We have a country like Afghanistan, which has been stratified into three groups: the sheikhs at the top, the elites who went to school, and the ordinary people. The sheikhs are in control, and the privileges they enjoy are not available to others. That was what brought about the Arab Spring in the Middle East and North Africa. Can you prove that the issue of Sharia Law in Nigeria is not a political tool—a means of acquiring political and economic power and gaining access to the resources of the nation?
A: Is it a political tool in Abuja? Tell me.
Q: The Federal Capital Territory is not Yoruba land. I am concerned about Yorubaland because I am a Yoruba man. I will do anything to protect Yorubaland. For me, I will advocate for only one Constitution, not multiple constitutions.
A: Do they practise the same religion? Is religion not more fundamental than tribe?
Q: Can your fear not be accommodated within one Constitution?
A: The Constitution has provided for everybody. Why are you running away from that? If you were a Muslim, I am sure you would not argue the way you are arguing. I am disappointed. I am disappointed, I must say.
Q: I am interested in what can bring cohesion?
A: You are very unrealistic, to say the least. We have a diverse community, and you are saying they should all blend to become one. It is unrealistic. The Constitution has taken care of all your fears. If anybody misbehaves, let the police go and arrest the person and take him through the justice system. For you to have a constitutional provision to take care of those who are marginalised, and for you to dance around it and talk of a united thing, is unrealistic.
Q: Nigeria is a member of the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, OIC. What implication does that have for Nigeria?
A: I don’t know. I don’t know.
Q: Do you think a country like Nigeria should belong to an association of Muslim countries?
A: If political leaders feel they have anything to gain from that, that is their business.
Q: If you were in a position to decide, would you have done differently?
A: Well, I don’t know. I don’t have all the facts that prompted our inclusion in the OIC. In any case, in what way has membership of the OIC affected us as citizens of Nigeria? I know that we also patronise the Islamic Development Bank because we are getting a lot of money from them. Nobody is complaining about that. We get a lot of Sukuk funds. We are not complaining about that because we are benefiting, and the government is benefiting. The one that relates to me as an individual is that people like you think we should not have it.
Q: Is it possible for us to play down religion in the interest of development?
A: Christians are not playing down their religion. Christians are already well taken care of.
Q: How?
A: In the sense that they have courts that consider their interests. Friday is a work-free day, while Sunday is not a work-free day. Sunday is a holiday because Christians go to church. Christmas and other Christian holidays are observed as public holidays. The government has imposed them on all of us. Recently, Maulud Nabiy was also declared a public holiday. It is irrelevant in Islam. Completely irrelevant.
Q: Why?
A: Because the Prophet never promoted anything like celebrating birthdays. Maulud Nabiy means the birthday of the Prophet.
Q: But Muslims asked for it?
A: I don’t know who fought for it. I think the government felt that because Christians have Christmas, it must give Maulud Nabiy. It is completely irrelevant. It was just to balance things up.
Q: So, you don’t believe in Maulud Nabiy?
A: No. It is completely irrelevant. Prophet Muhammad never promoted anything like birthdays.
Q: How do we guarantee religious harmony in Nigeria?
A: There is religious harmony in Nigeria. Anyway, what is important, which nobody can run away from, is that, whether we like it or not, we must have Sharia Courts in Oyo State.
Q: Can a fatwa be declared against a Christian?
A: Sharia Courts are not criminal courts. If anybody declares a fatwa against a Christian, he must have gone on a voyage of criminality as an individual.
Q: As a Christian, can I touch the Qur’an?
A: Yes.
Q: If I touch the Qur’an, can’t I be attacked?
A: No, you can’t be attacked. People have had problems with Almighty God himself by seeking to burn the Qur’an. They burnt the Qur’an, and God turned them into animals and other horrible things. It has happened in history. If it is not to dishonour the Qur’an, why not?
Q: Do you see me as a believer?
A: You believe in Jesus.
Q: Am I an infidel to you?
A: You don’t believe in Islamic ideals, but you believe in your own ideals.
Q: What will you tell your Muslim faithful about Sharia?
A: I want to tell them that they have a right guaranteed by the Constitution to have a Sharia Court established in Oyo State, and so they should establish it for them.
Q: What do you want to tell Christians and worshippers of other religions who have fears about the establishment of a Sharia Court?
A: There is no fear whatsoever. Any fear about the establishment of Sharia is misplaced. Muslims should not attack Christians simply because there is a Sharia Court. The Sharia Courts are only civil courts, which have jurisdiction over Islamic civil and personal matters. It is just like ordinary Christians in Kwara State or the Federal Capital Territory who do not have any fear about the establishment of Sharia Courts.
Q: What is your predisposition to Western education?
A: Of course, I am educated, and I have benefited from it. I am as educated as any other person. So, I don’t have any problem with it. Islam teaches us about exploration and that we should explore the world and gain knowledge wherever we can. I have benefited from that.
Q: What do you have to say concerning those who say Western education is bad?
A: They are very ignorant people. I believe that part of the problem is caused by the government. The government has a duty under the Constitution to ensure that every child is provided with free, compulsory education up to university level, but our government has abandoned this responsibility. It is because of this that these uneducated folks get into criminality because that is the only thing they know. So, I would urge that, as a government, we must make education compulsory and free for all children in Nigeria.
Q: What is your advice to the people of Oyo State as the 2027 election draws closer?
A: My advice is that the people of Oyo State should insist that they vote for candidates who have specific targets and promises that will benefit them. I believe that the basic benefits to be expected from anybody in government are free education and free health services.
Q: Are you still going to contest future elections?
A: No.
Q: Are you still active in politics?
A: I am more into agitating for the rights of Muslims and ensuring that Muslims are sufficiently educated about their rights. I am happy and thank God that I have a Western education, which enables me to understand Islam better. If you have Western education, you are likely to understand Islam better than if you don’t have it. I believe that the people of Oyo State should ensure that they give their children the best of Western education, which will enable their children to understand Islam better.
Q: Is active politics over for you?
A: It is getting over. Certainly, I will no longer contest elections. I have seen that those I am competing with don’t have anything other than politics. They don’t have a second address. I have a second address. I have a third address. I have written eight books on Islam.
Q: What is the focus of the books?
A: I wrote three books when I was a student at the University of Ife. They are all on Islam. The first three I wrote in Ife are A Modern Introduction to Islam, Islam and Christianity: Why the Conflict, and Islamic Ideology: Path to Democratic Socialism in Nigeria. I see that we don’t want communism in Nigeria. But Islam provides a softer level of socialism, which I call Islamic ideology. If we imbibe the lessons of Islamic ideology, society will be much better than it is today.
Q: Are you saying you would be much happier if Nigeria were Islamised?
A: Of course, I would be happier, but I am not forcing anybody to be.
Q: Do you see Nigeria becoming an Islamic nation?
A: No, I don’t see it.
Q: What do you think the government is doing that is promoting religious intolerance?
A: The government should ensure that people have their basic rights. Unfortunately, in Nigeria, we have a government that lacks proper focus with regard to the welfare of the people. I am an ardent APC person, but I am not happy that our party doesn’t have the focused ideology that Chief Obafemi Awolowo had. I expect that, as we claim to be—Awolowo started progressive politics—the things which he established as part of progressivism in politics should be maintained. We have abandoned them: free education at all levels, free health services, integrated infrastructural development and full employment. These are the four basic targets that I would expect any leader in the APC to adopt.
Q: Are you still practising law?
A: No. I have retired. I have been in legal practice for about 50 years now.
Q: What happens to Crescent Law Firm?
A: It is still there. I go there to meet people who want a letter of recommendation, or advice or assistance.
Q: Pro bono?
A: Pro bono, of course. My mission is now going to be committed to advocating for the rights of Muslims and propagating Islam. Islam is not about Sharia alone. Sharia is an aspect. A lot of Muslims don’t know Islam. They were just born into the Islamic religion. For instance, the whole purpose of coming to this earth is to serve God. I see a lot of people, even Muslims, saying they are celebrating birthdays. Birthday for what? Is it an achievement that God allows you to get to 60, 70, or 80? What have you done to deserve it? I don’t celebrate birthdays. The important thing about our birthday is to remember that we owe God a lot of responsibilities: to serve Him properly, to work, and to assist people. All of us have an expiry date as human beings. The only thing is that God doesn’t let us know our expiry dates because He knows we are hypocrites. If we knew our expiry date, we would be doing all kinds of evil until it was about a week before our expiry date, and then we would start begging God. For me, a birthday means nothing. It is self-glorification.
Q: Is celebrating Maulud meaningless from the perspective of Islamic injunctions?
A: It is meaningless to Islam because the Prophet of Islam never celebrated Maulud. The person who started Maulud was the King of Egypt, more than 400 years after the Prophet had died. He envied Christians in Egypt who were celebrating Christmas, and as a king, he decided to spend a lot of money to do something similar to Christmas. There is no reward for it from God. If you truly love God and the Prophet, respect his injunctions rather than throwing a party. A lot of Muslims use that occasion to make money.
Q: Do you think there is any reason why Muslims and Christians should have conflicts?
A: Ideally, all these religions are not different. They are the same. It is the same building; it is just different stages. Judaism is a stage. After Judaism came what is now called Christianity. There is so much misunderstanding.
Q: What is your advice to Christians and Muslims who go on social media to attack one another?
A: Mischief-makers will continue to exist. Anybody conscious of his proper rights and his proper position in the world will not engage in all of that. What we need is to seek knowledge. If you are ignorant, there is nothing you will not do to satisfy your perverted vision of life. I want to advise that people should read. In Britain and the United States today, the fastest-growing religion is Islam. In Africa, particularly in countries like Nigeria, the fastest-growing religion is Christianity. Why? In Britain, the level of education and discovery is higher. In Nigeria, we deal more with perceptions and half-knowledge.
