Ibrahim Lawal, a lawyer and former student activist, and a prince from Lafogido Ruling House, Ile-Ife, in an exclusive interview with Gbenro Adesina, reflects on his journey from humble beginnings in Ile-Ife to becoming Chairman of the Nigerian Bar Association (NBA), Ibadan branch. Lawal recounts his early education, activism in school, and eventual pursuit of law despite setbacks including rustication from the University of Ibadan (UI). His legal career was shaped by mentorship from the late Rotimi Akeredolu, the immediate past governor of Ondo State, under whom he worked closely and later led the Ibadan office of Olujimi and Akeredolu Chambers. He shares insights from his political appointment under Governor Rauf Aregbesola of Osun State, distinguishing between bureaucrats and politicians. Lawal critiques the self-serving nature of Nigerian politicians and the complicity of civil servants in corruption. He underscores the challenges facing legal practice in Nigeria including delayed justice, poor remuneration for young lawyers, and lack of resources in courts. A passionate advocate for reform, he supports abolishing the law on bigamy and suggests reverting to a parliamentary system for cost-effective governance.
Q: Can you lead us into your background?
A: I was born over 50 years ago in Ile-Ife. I am a prince from Lafogido Ruling House in Ife. My brother is Sooko, Sooko Tajudeen Lawal, from our own ruling house. We are of the same father. I attended Ansar Ud Deen primary School, Ogboagbara and Oduduwa College, both in Ile-Ife. I’ve always been exhibiting leadership traits right from my secondary school days. In form 3, I was appointed as a time keeper. The school picked senior prefects from HSC and the best student among the form 3 would be picked to be a time keeper. In senior class, I was made the punctuality prefect. After Oduduwa College, I made a foray to Tai Solarin College of Education, where I studied Political Science and Islamic Studies. It was Ogun state College of Education then. I became the speaker of the student union. It was during our time that a particular incident happened. Some cultists attacked Michael Ebonhor, a student. Kola Olawuyi carried that news, “Talo yoju Ebonhor?” (who plucked out Ebonhor’s eyes?). In our campus, there was no light and water. We were using lantern to read. Col. Daniel Akintonde was the military administrator at the time. When he came to our school, I insisted that he must walk from Ijagun river to our school. After that, we got electricity. Upon the completion of my NCE, I got admission to University of Ibadan (UI) through direct entry to study Adult Education cum Political Science in the Faculty of Education. I wasn’t fulfilled. So, I left when I was in 300 level. I sat for JAMB and I passed and was admitted to Law. In 200 level, I became the SUG Speaker. I was a member of Social Democratic Movement. We always engage the authority about the things we felt was not right. We were also engaging the government of the day. We were at the vanguard of the restoration of June 12. We were members of NADECO. We were holding our meetings in the office of Pa Abraham Adesanya in Lagos. We participated in almost all the struggle. We suffered a lot of incarceration from Ibadan to Ado-Ekiti to Akure. We were always detained because of our radical views. At a point, I was rusticated in 400 level from UI. When I came back, I had to repeat 400 level. At my 500 level, they still rusticated me. There were lots of offences they said I committed. At the end of the day, I weathered the storm. I went to Law School. Despite being rusticated, I finished my degree programme with second Class Upper Division and I made second Class Upper Division in Law School. I came back to UI for my Master’s programme and graduated with a PhD grade but I refused to go and do the PhD. While in Law School, I was posted to Olujimi and Akeredolu Law Firm for my chamber’s attachment. That was when I came across the late Oluwarotimi Akeredolu. He took instant interest in me and we were relating like father and son. 18 of us came to do chamber’s attachment. Whenever we hold chamber’s meeting, I will take them into account and ask questions. One day, he called me and told me to come back and work in the chamber whenever I am through with my studies. Immediately after I was called to Bar, I resumed with him. I had never written job application in my life. The first appearance I had in court was at the Court of Appeal. He said they should give me the file for Court of Appeal. It was on an application for an extension of time. Ordinarily, I shouldn’t have been made to handle such case. If you want to have a stint at Olujimi and Akeredolu, you will go through rigorous exams and interview. I was not subjected to such things. I joined them when Akeredolu wanted to become NBA president. I was conscripted to the campaign committee. Perhaps, I was the youngest in terms of calling to Bar. I also served as his personal assistant. I took care of his mails and every other thing. You can hardly see Aketi in any occasion without me. We were very close. When he became the NBA president, I was his personal assistant until I was drafted by my own state, Osun State, to serve under the government of Ogbeni Rauf Aregbesola as a Senior Special Assistant to the governor on Legal and Judicial Sector Reform.
Late Alhaja Lawal, Ibrahim Lawal’s Mother
Q: Was that Appointment influenced by Akeredolu?
A: No, it wasn’t. I was identified by my friend and aluta comrade, Ajibola Bashiru, the present National Secretary of All Progressive Congress (APC). He recommended me to Ogbeni Aregbesola that I should work with him.
Q; That was how you became a politician?
A: I was a political appointee. I’ll not describe myself as a politician. The politicians have their ways of doing things. They don’t see us as politicians. They see us as bureaucrats. Up till today, I don’t see myself as a politician but I know that everyone of us plays politics. The levels at which we play politics vary. One thing I know is that a politician who is worth his salt, somebody who want to be respected, should have a second address. Politicians don’t have any other job than politics. As professionals, there are certain things we will not be able to do because we have a second address. I did my best until a time that I had to leave the government voluntarily. I did four years with Aregbesola. His second term, I was involved. If not that I left, I would have either been a special adviser or commissioner because of the role I played. But it was during that period we had issues. Aketi was vying for the Ondo State governorship election. The position of Aregbesola was not in support of Aketi’s candidature. I had to choose between Aketi and Aregbesola, so, I left. I came back to Ibadan. Akeredolu was my principal and I had to support him.
Q: Are you saying that Aketi and Aregbesola were not in the same camp in APC?
A: Aketi was instrumental to Aregbesola getting his mandate. He was his vociferous attorney. At a point, interest differed. At a point, Aregbesola was loyal to Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu. You know Aketi first had contested for the governorship election that he lost to Segun Mimiko. Aregbesola supported him that time. The second coming of Aketi, there was an issue. Aregbesola decided not to support him. I could not leave my oga.
Q: Why do you think Aregbesola withdrew his support for Aketi’s governorship ambition?
A: The reason then was that they had a candidate and Aketi was no longer their candidate and Aketi must be stopped at all cost. I came back to Ibadan when I left Aregbesola, but not to the office. I was looking at the office from afar until after the election when Aketi himself called me in 2016 and gave me the offer to head this chamber in Ibadan. We have two offices. One in Ibadan headed by Aketi and the other in Abuja headed by Chief Olujimi. With the absence of Aketi in Ibadan, they needed somebody to head Ibadan and that was how I was called to head Ibadan office. Aketi never interfered in my running of the office. Whatever I need, I discuss with Chief Olujimi. Even, if Aketi wanted to introduce anybody and I say no, it is no.
Q: Having worked with politicians at that close range, what is your experience about their perspective to serving people?
A: Aregbesola as at that time was pro-masses. The programme he embarked upon, O-anything was for the masses. To be fair to him, as at the time he was a governor, enrolment in primary and secondary schools increased. People brought their children from the neigbouring states because of foods. He started O-meal programme, which the federal government adopted. He also introduced free uniform and Opon imo tablet. The idea was to reawaken the consciousness of people and to encourage the down trodden to have the benefit of education. He was busy with the laws that would bring development. At the time, the politicians felt that the government was doing so much that it has neglected the interest of the politician. Average politicians are only interested in what they will gain not what they will do for people. Even when you conceive project that will benefit people and award it to politicians for execution, they are going to do it in such a way that majority of the benefit will be accrued to them. In terms of employment, they believe that they should be the one to bring people that will occupy positions even if they are not qualified. They see some of us as outsiders. It doesn’t matter to them whether you are bringing certain skills. They see a lot people as coming to reap where they didn’t sow. They will tell you that “a tori Olorun se oselu now (we are not in politics for God).
Q: Can we now conclude that the politicians’ ideology is responsible for the nation’s underdevelopment?
A: If Nigeria is going to be good, we have to start from the bureaucracy. Even the politicians we condemn, the civil servants are worse than them. I have had interface with them. Are they not the one that will execute project? No politician can steal money without the collaboration of civil servants. Politicians don’t even know where the money is. It is the civil servants that will tell them. They are the accounting officer and every ministry has accounting officer, the permanent secretary.
Q: Can you ever contest for a political office?
A: Yes and no. In this part of the world, if the owners of political parties say come and contest, I will. But I cannot conceive the aspiration myself. It doesn’t make sense. The moment you have ambition; you are in trouble. A lot of demands will be heaped on you. They will reap you of what you have. Even when they know you are not going to anywhere, you will be hearing your excellency, honourable. Unless I am assured by the owners of power saying they want me, I will not come out to run for any office.
Q: Can you talk about your first appearance in the lower court?
A: There was a case I did with one professor, a SAN, who taught my principals, Akeredolu and Ogunjimi in the university. We were representing University of Lagos. We filed a preliminary objection to his case at federal high court, Lagos. I went to argue it. He was telling me in the court that he taught my principals. I was just looking at him. We got a date for arguments. I called Chief Olujimi and told him it appears you are going to lead me. He replied that I should go there and lead the case. He said, even, if it is FRA Williams that is in the other side, you will go. Prepare your argument and let me see. He added one authority. I went to Lagos. On that day, we started the argument. I told the court that I needed its protection; that I don’t subscribe to anyone deriding me regardless of the status. W now started the argument. I brought out Elabanjo and Dawodu. In the case of Elabanjo and Dawodu, it was established that if an action is deemed statute-barred (meaning it’s been filed outside the time limit prescribed by a statute of limitations), the court does not have jurisdiction to hear it, and the action cannot be sustained.Perhaps, learned prof has not read that authority. I cited the authority. The court adjourned for ruling. On the day the court delivered the ruling, I won. I called my wife and told her I won. It is like a fight between Goliat and David. I can’t forget that case in my life. I called chief and he told me that I told you that you will win. That gives me confidence that there is no legal giant I can’t stand before. Since then, we have started. I can’t be intimidated. I am sandwiched between two legal giants. If you say you are a SAN, I wine and dine with two SANs. A lot of things we learnt from them. They are masters in terms of appearance and learning. We’ve been able to learn at their feet. Anywhere we speak law, you can’t fault our position.
Q: Is there any case you lost that shook you?
A: There was this divorce case, a pedestrian matter. It was a case of filing a petition for divorce under the ground that they had lived apart for more than three years. The law is that it is automatic. If a couple has lived apart for three years, the marriage has collapsed irretrievably. This particular judge in the high court in Ibadan said even at that, they didn’t say the reason why they lived apart. He now dismissed the petition. I didn’t understand. The thing shook me that I had to post the judgement on a platform and lots of people commented. We refiled the petition instead of appealing it and we got the correct judgement. That case shook me. What also made me happy was the case of a guy in Ogun State charged for murder. The Policeman actually killed the man. He was a police officer attached to an expatriate. On their way to somewhere, the man said he wanted to urinate. He went into the bush with the man. When he got to the bush, the man started wrestling his gun with him. There was accidental discharge. There was no one I discussed that case with who didn’t say that the man would be charged for murder. God made it in such a way that by the time I began to cross examine the police that did the investigation, and the driver who drove the car, I was able to establish manslaughter, which the man was charged with, and not murder as speculated. Because he had spent lot of years in detention, he just spent few months and was released.
Q: What is the penalty for manslaughter?
A: 10 years.
Q: What is the intersection between legal and moral, particularly, when it comes to representing a hardened criminal in the court?
A: Section 36 of our constitution says an accused person is presumably innocent until he is found guilty. Our job as a lawyer is not to go to court and lie that the person has not committed an offence. The job of a lawyer is to prove whether somebody has committed an offence or not. Our job is to ensure that if you say somebody has committed armed robbery, there are ingredients that you must establish to say that the person committed armed robbery. Ours is to look at whether you are able to prove or not. You can do that by cross examining the witnesses. In a murder case, there must be actual killing and the intention to kill and they must come conjunctively not disjunctively. You can say you saw somebody with your wife doing something together and you now went out and first relax yourself and came back and killed the person. You have the intention of killing the person. You can’t plead provocation. But you saw him with your wife and killed him immediately, you can plead provocation. If you have gone out and come back to kill, you are not provoked any longer.
Q: Can anyone who proved provocation be free from a case?
A: You can’t be exonerated or free entirely but you will not be charged for murder. It can be manslaughter. If it is an accident, it is a defence for murder.
Q: Can a case be argued from a moral perspective and win?
A:There are times when moral has no place when it comes to law. What is morally right, at times, may be legally wrong. If you are not careful about morality, it will get into the realm of sentiment. Sentiment has no place in law. We have seen somebody plead guilty to an offence that he himself didn’t know he didn’t commit because offence must be written in a law and sanction is also provided in that law.
Q: Were you born into a wealthy family?
A: No, I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my month. I was born into a polygamous family. My mom was a trader. My dad had four wives and we are 18 in number. I am number 13 or 16. My dad was a civil servant in Osun State – a junior auditor. My mom is a trader trading in fruits. She would go to villages and farms to buy fruits and take it to Lagos to sell. She was a fruits’ merchant. I hawked in Ile-Ife. I hawked walnuts, kolanuts, and garden eggs, among others. Our place is Ita Akogun. That open market was where our house was. So, I am a market boy. Garden egg was our own side hustle. I would go and sell at Lagere-Mafia axis to make ends meet. It was rough and tough but the resilience and determination made us to succeed. Though hawking, we were very brilliant in school. At times, I didn’t have shoe to wear. When our former president, Dr Goodluck Ebele Jonathan said he didn’t have shoe, I said he wasn’t the only one that didn’t have shoe. Most of us didn’t have sandals. At times, when your slippers cut, you have to stitch it together and continue using it. That is the kind of the environment we were raised and it doesn’t deter us from getting education. We were determined to get to where we are today. We thank God.
Q: Are you the only one that went to school among your siblings?
A: All of us went to school and graduated.
Q: Who sponsored you in school?
A: My elder brother sponsored my tertiary education from the college of education to the university. He was even the one that did wedding for me.
Q: What was your ugliest moment when you were growing up?
A: They are many. One of the ugliest moments is my inability to complete my secondary school education in science class. I was a science student. I was offering English, Maths, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Agric Science and Further Maths. I had to leave science class in form four to arts class because I couldn’t afford science textbooks. I wanted to be a medical doctor.
Q: Have you ever suffered heartbroken from ladies?
A: I have been lucky since my childhood. I have always been loved. In fact, girls come to me. I was so lucky that when I needed to get who to marry, it was easy. I was able to make an informed decision about it. My wife is a teacher. We met at the college of education and today, we are husband and wife. Two of our children are in the university.
Q: What made you aspire for NBA Chairman’s position?
A: My background has always been for service, right from my secondary school days. I have always been speaking for people. My background as union activist has positioned me well to represent people. This is not the first time I would run. I ran for the position of vice chairman in 2018. I was vice chairman and my chairman then was my lecturer in UI. Afterwards, I ran for the position of chairman. I ran because I feel that we need courageous leadership at the bar. A leader that can speak truth to power. Within the little time we have been in the saddle, we have done our best to speak truth to power. We have spoken to the EFCC, executive and the leadership of the judiciary.
Q: As the chairman of NBA, what moment made you proudest?
A: The day we confronted the EFCC.
Q: Why?
A: Because EFCC is seen as a no-go area for anyone. They have turned themselves to demigods. We were able to confront them and told them that they are subjected to law. That day, I felt proud of myself and the Association.
Q: What legacy will you like to leave behind as NBA Chairman?
A: A legacy of a leader that at every point in time, we have been able to stand in the face of the rule of law regardless of whose ox is gored. We have the right to defend the rule of law and speak out when the rule of law is being trampled upon.
Q: Can you talk about one legal myth Nigerians need to stop believing?
A: The myth that there is nothing police can’t do for you. When somebody owes you money, you believe that when you report that person, the police will collect that debt for you. The police are not debt collectors. Land issue is not the job of police. Go to court for matters like that, it doesn’t concern police. It is a myth that people should not believe. It is not within their power. The police will collect 10 percent of the debt collected. When a lawyer tells them that they are not debt collectors, they know. It is not right for police collecting debt. We now have small claims court. If anybody owe you money that is up to like N6m, you can approach that court and within three weeks, your money will be collected for you.
Q: What about if one doesn’t have the means to get a lawyer to help one file at this special court?
A: You don’t need to engage lawyer in that court. You can approach them yourself and file your thing that. You just get a form, fill and they will serve the other party.
Q: Is it true that justice is for the rich in Nigeria?
A: It is not true. It is for everyone. The problem is that people don’t know their rights. Because of the way the society is structured, particularly, if you don’t have money to prosecute, you might have issues. We have taken cases of people who do not have money and we have won those cases for them.
Q: Many people believe they can’t afford lawyer’s fees?
A: Why do they believe that?
Q: How much can I have to engage the service of your law firm?
A: It depends on the category of lawyers. It is like if you want to eat, you know how much you have. You can go to “buka” and eat with cheap money to your satisfaction. You can also go to ‘Mama Ope’ and you will eat satisfactorily.
Q: Can a person earning like N100,000 afford to access the service of a lawyer?
A: What do you want to do that that you will get a service of lawyer in the first place if your money is for you to just eat? Whoever that will need a service of a lawyer has enough to acquire certain things. If you buy land, are you not going to do agreement, or survey? Don’t let us trivialise issues. You can live your life without engaging lawyer or have problem with anybody.
Q: How do you explain a situation whereby somebody manage to get a land and the seller resell it to another person and such don’t have money to seek court intervention, what happens?
A: If you know you don’t have money to engage services, use your money to eat.
Q: You can now see why many Nigerians can’t fight for their rights?
A: There is what we call Legal Aid Council. If you don’t have money, go to legal aid, they will defend you free of charge.
Q: Is there one law you will like to see abolished or reformed in Nigeria?
A: I wish law of bigamy is abolished. It is a dead law that should be phased out because of our culture. I don’t know if somebody has been convicted on it. Because of our culture, somebody you have children for, you now send that person to jail. People will be referring to such a child as a child of a prisoner.
Q: What is more stressful between managing a tough case and a tough lawyer?
A: Managing a tough case is more stressful because you have to do more research. If you have set rules, I don’t think there will be problem of managing lawyers or any human being.
Q: What is the biggest challenge that practicing lawyers face?
A: Challenge of funds. Challenge of clients not paying for the actual value of the services rendered. The length of time that will take you to do a case. If cases are filed and they are determined on time, it makes us prosperous.
Q: What about the younger ones?
A: The challenge is the remuneration. A lot of law firms don’t pay well. The younger ones always want to get rich very quickly. We have always been telling them that a lot of us also started gradually and they don’t want to listen to that story. Most of them feel disappointed when they come into the profession because the expectations are not met. The higher you go in the profession, the more prosperous you become. You can’t make it suddenly; like that. That is why a lot of them go into things they shouldn’t go into.
Q: What is the remuneration of a younger lawyer?
A: It is not really encouraging. If you are not lazy and you are in the office where you can also do your thing, you will be fine. We allow our staff to take their own cases. It is ethical, though some law firms don’t allow that. We allow it here and that is why our staff are doing well, riding good cars.
Q: Can a young lawyer be paid like N300,000?
A: No. The highest a young lawyer can take maybe, N150,000.
Q: What are the causes of delay in justice system?
A: There are no enough hands to handle those cases. That was why we fought for the appointment of judges. We are able to achieve it. We are still asking for more. We also talk about the adequate funding of the court. The quality of those that are working in the judiciary, there must be training and retraining. They must have enough tools to work with. They are still writing in long hands at this age and time. There must be improvement in the way we run our court system. Our court system must be digitalised in such a way that we are able to monitor what is going on.
Q: What are the reforms you will advocate for in our Constitution?
A: I think the democracy we run now is too expensive. It will be better for us to go back to parliamentary system of government and it will be more representative and cost effective.
Q: What advice do you have for the younger lawyers?
A: They must be focused and patient and learn this job. It is not right for a lawyer to just go and open office without getting trained. They must do tutelage. When you know the law, the money will come. They must be ready to sacrifice a little time to learn this job. When they do, they are going to be better for it.
